With Gina Varelli on "Let's Get Metaphysical", Jan. 1990

Gina: My guests tonight are Joshua Shapiro again, author of Mysteries of the Crystal Skulls Revealed. He was on the show Friday night. And we have an addition tonight, José Iniquez.

José: In'-i-quez.

Gina: Yeah, you say it better than I do. And you are very special. This is the first time - is this the first time you have appeared in public to talk about your skull?

José: No.

Gina: You've done this before?

José: I did it for a small group of people in a friend's home in Las Vegas.

( some preliminary information was shared by Joshua .... )

Gina: José , you are from Las Vegas.

José: I live in Las Vegas.

Gina: And you have a crystal skull.

José: Yes.

Gina: Can you tell us when you first got that skull?

José: Well, I have had it from 1942 until now.

Gina: You got it in 1942.

José: 1942.

Gina: How did you get it?

José: Well, I discovered it in a Mayan city and in a Mayan temple. Only because of the thing that is involved, I cannot say now exactly where (I found it).

Gina: Right. So you found it.

José: Yes, I found it, I bring alive, or I bring to my house, and I keep in my house from that time until now.

Gina: Wow!

José: It was something fantastic.

Gina: When you first found it, were you excited?

José: Well, first thing you have to consider that something like that is fantastic, first. Second, the age that I was - this was something that, well, in this time we expect fantastic things and our minds fly in beautiful ways and look at this kind of thing - well, for me it was the most fantastic thing that could happen to me.

Gina: Wow! Well, you were pretty young though. You were in your teens.

José: I was around seventeen - sixteen.

Gina: Yeah? Wow! We have a picture of the one (the skull) ...

Joshua: You want to hold up the picture of your crystal skull? You want to point at it...

José: This is the crystal skull ...

Gina: Yes, now you want to tip it (the photo) down just a little bit.

José: Okay.

Gina: No, you had it right. There we go. That's it. Now this is - this is actually a different skull then from the other ones we have seen (looking at photo of Josés' crystal skull and in reference to photos of other skulls shown, not discussed in this reprint of the interview) ...

[An aside from Joshua about the photograph being shown on tv: The skull is clear quartz, one-third the size of the human skull, and can fit in an index box - a box for index cards. It has Mayan symbols in the cheekbones, which you cannot see (in the photo), and these symbols are in a spiral pattern. Around the top of the head are two circles. And Jose knows what these Mayan symbols are and mean, but he said the symbol on the top of the skull represented what you have in your mind manifests in the physical.]

Gina: I don't know how well we can actually see this. It's actually a little bit cloudy in the back.

José: Yes, in the back.

Gina: Okay now, over the years your life has changed from this skull.

José: Well, changed at the time that I found this skull ... well, (my life) changed in a way that ... I start to reach my goals, or I start to make real my illusions.

Gina: (Laughter) Okay.

José: Because the thing is that everybody has illusions or goals in their minds, that, well, for some reasons, sometimes, don't work.

Gina: Yes.

José: But in my personal life, everything that was in my mind I materialize, I make real.

Gina: Now did you know at the time that that was what was happening, or did you realize this later?

José: Well, I believe that it had to be destiny. Because too many things that happened to my life are things that are in some way are controversial.

Gina: Yes.

José: And in some way a little hard to accept. And I believe that because of these reasons was my destiny. But after I read the book of Joshua...

Gina: Yes.

José: Gave me the scientific reasons why the crystal skull worked in my life and now, well, I have to say this thing. I work in things that some people don't believe.

Gina: Yes. Right.

José: I am inside to metaphysics, occult, magic, voodoo, power of the mind, psychoanalysis, everything.

Gina: You've always been interested in that, haven't you?

José: Yes, because that was my line. It was something that I liked. But in all these kinds of things is a lot of histories, because sometimes the people said things that -well, you have to listen (to these people), because sometimes the fantasy of the mind goes more than the real thing.

Gina: Yes.

José: So this is why I keep a line in my life to use and to check everything like is inside of these kind of things - the only thing that works in this life - because I have to believe in the thing that I know.

Gina: Yes.

José: And in this life, I have to have the money to move. And I cannot put my mind to fly or to go out looking for things that don't give me money. So I have to be very material.

Gina: Right. Even though you were very involved in this other world.

José: Yes, but the other world and the thing is because the other world give me the knowledge to use in this world because, well, I believe that I made the bridge in between the occult, the metaphysics, the magic, the voodoo - all these kinds of things - I made the bridge to the material way.

Gina: And the crystal skull has helped you do that.

José: Well, this is a conclusion that I came to after I read the book.

Gina: After reading that book.

José: Yes. Because after I read the book by Joshua, I find the scientific reasons why the crystal skulls are like a computer and they have a program. And so for the time that I found my crystal skull, and I say mine, because, well, it is mine - I found it. So, at the time that I found the crystal skull, I was interested to find what the meaning of the thing, because it is the only one that I have seen that has the symbols.

Gina: Yes, it has symbols carved into it - right, right?

José: So, all this time, I see the symbols and I know these symbols. But looking at my crystal skull every day - sometimes I think that there was something there, but I don't know what. Because I didn't have any scientific reason that prove to me that something was there. But after I read the book, I understand everything.

Gina: Yes.

Joshua: I just wanted to clarify for the listeners - when he is talking about symbols, there are Mayan symbols that are engraved on this crystal skull. And they have meaning to the Mayans what these symbols are, which, you know, he understands the meaning.

Gina: Jose had mentioned that they are like a computer program - would you explain that a little bit, Joshua?

Joshua: Okay. Basically what we are referring to about computers, or computer programming is that a crystal has the inherent capability of recording every vibration that occurs around it. And, as we talked about Friday, there are holographic images that appear within the crystal skulls. When I had an opportunity to work with Jose's skull - this was a fascinating story - I saw an image of a man with a hat in the back part, which is cloudy. What he was trying to say is the front part of the skull is clear and towards the back of the head it's cloudy. So I saw this picture. So I drew it down and I gave him a copy of my notes. I went to the Rosicrucian Museum in San Jose, California and there was this face in the museum, in an Egyptian collection.

Gina: Wow!

Joshua: Now I didn't understand what that meant, because this is an Egyptian museum and his is a Mayan crystal skull. So I didn't know what that meant. But anyway, as far as being a computer - our computers today can record information, store music - it can record pictures, graphics, animation - so this is what we see in the crystal skull. But what causes a problem perhaps for scientists is they don't want to admit that there is a solid, physical object that will change in front of their eyes. This is the area which I think more research needs to be done - where we can maybe get more scientists involved, which is one of the areas that we are looking for. So we call it a computer because it contains a great deal of knowledge, information, and somehow when a person works with the skull or is in the presence of the skull, their vibration activates the computer and certain images will come out, or certain colors will activate the computer, or sound. This is what my co-authors discovered while they were working with the Mitchell-Hedges skull and other skulls where they would work with color, light, and sound. And it would become activated.

The Mitchell-Hedges skull that you saw in the very beginning is clear as glass. But when you start working with it, it clouds up and these images form. So that's what we mean by a computer. Now as far as programming it, programming means through the power of the mind .... you place within the skull some kind of program to release information. And my feeling is, after seeing Jose's skull, the Mitchell-Hedges skull, the Amethyst crystal skull, and the Texas crystal skull, that the mind of the beings who created these artifacts were beyond what we know today, technologically. And of course with the Mayan people, there is speculation that they were of an extraterrestrial origin, because of the questions: where did they come from and where did they go? Some people feel that they had a very advanced culture. So, possibly within his crystal skull, being that it's Mayan, that they placed some of their information and wisdom inside of it.

Gina: But it doesn't seem to be limited to just that. It seems to be - in other words, the crystal skull seems to be open to a lot of other things, because you had seen that particular image in an Egyptian museum.

Joshua: Yes.

Gina: So...

Joshua: So the next question is: If it works like a computer - in modern computers today I can take a piece of information and send it to another computer all the way across the world.

Gina: Right.

Joshua: So could it be that there is some source that is sending these pictures or these images in the skull.

Gina: Okay.

Joshua: And where is it coming from then? Is it coming from other crystal skulls, other intelligences whether on the Earth or out of the Earth? We don't know.

Gina: José, have you ever wondered why you have this - why you've been blessed with this?

José: Well, this is something that I have accept - that is destiny.

Gina: Yes.

José: Because with destiny, well, we can get out a lot of questions that we don't know.

Joshua: Now one of the things I would suggest looking at is when you start studying the stories around each of the different owners and how they got their skulls, it's really incredible. The Mitchell-Hedges skull - Anna Mitchell-Hedges sees something reflecting through a window of one of the ruins and knows it's important. And her father says, "Oh, it's a piece of glass." And she gets all of these Mayan natives to go and they dig it out and there is this beautiful crystal skull. The Texas crystal skull, which is also known as MAX, which is usually on display at, like, Whole Life Expos, or some other metaphysical conferences - a Tibetan healer somehow got the skull and owed the Parks a debt, who are the current owners, and he repays the debt by giving them the crystal skull and saying, "One day you will know." And it sat, I think, in a hat box or something for many years. So I mean, I have never personally -and maybe you might say the same (looking at Jose) - been involved in something where so many incredible things go on and your life changes - you meet incredible people - it's amazing and that is primarily one of the reasons why I feel it is so important to do programs like this, or lecture, or work with other people like José, because this is part of our past, and it is now resurfacing. And I think they (the crystal skulls) are coming out to help us. Part of a vision for world peace. These are sacred artifacts. And José can tell you how he feels about his skull for that - for world peace and helping humanity.

Gina: José, I want to ask you to tell us the story about when this crystal therapists, or this lady, worked on you and she placed the crystal skull on you. Tell us that story.

José: Well, I spent in the hospital around two years, because I have a problem with the circulation in my legs and they have to cut it, cut it, cut it, until they stopped. But in between the food in the hospital, the life in the hospital, it made me feel very weak. So I needed to find a way to have an energy back, because, well, I was not satisfied with my life doing nothing. So I decided to use a piece of crystal with a ruby inside of the crystal, because the ruby has the ability or the particularity to pick up the energy of the sun and being in the crystal multiply this energy. So, this is what I told a friend of mine that works in a store that does these things. So I was looking for somebody that makes some kind of gold to hang it. And I came into the jewelry store to this lady Dusty, and so they go to make the thing, but at the time they were supposed to give it to me it was not ready. So I picked it up later and this woman starts to talk to me in Spanish. So she asked me why I have the crystal with the ruby in the center. And I explained the reason. So she told me that she gave treatments in crystals. So she told me that she can give me the treatment with crystals if I teach her the effect of the stones on the human body.

Gina: Right.

José: And we make a deal. So she came to my home and she gave me the first treatment. She put me in the bed and put crystals all over and around me. And this night she was looking at my crystal skull but she don't say nothing. And I do not know if I feel something or not from the first treatment. But the second night, when she came, she asked me, "What is that?" I said, "Well, it is a crystal skull". She said, "May I see it?" I said, "Yes." So when she picked up the crystal skull, she started to well, shake a little bit and the hairs on her arms stood up and she told me that this crystal skull is a powerful thing and I said, "Why you talk to me in Chinese because I have had it a lot of years and I don't know nothing."

Gina: This was before you met Joshua.

José: Oh yes. This happened about two and half years ago. And so, she told me that I had a very powerful thing. And she started to tell me where I found it. She started to describe me and I was surprised how precise she was.

Gina: Really!

Joshua: This is typical. Some people can pick up on histories about such artifacts.

José: So, I was surprised because I don't tell her nothing about where I found it. But she said that we was in the time of purification, according to the astrological situation of the stars. And she told me there was a time when this thing had to bring it up. I said, "Well, what for? How? What do I have to do?"

Gina: (Laughter) What do I do with it?

José: Because really, I was like a dog without an owner. I mean I don't know what to do in this time. So she explained to me things and I said, "Well, maybe." So the very next time was a few days before August 4th - she called me and told me that in a few days was her birthday and she was going to have in friends from Colorado, Utah, and California, and they're supposed to be all psychics. Then she asked me if it was okay for her to discuss with others about the crystal skull. And she asked if I could bring the crystal skull to her house and I say, "Yes." So, the 4th of August, was all these ladies and everybody have different experience (with the crystal skull). And it was for me something completely different because - I didn't know, but it intrigued me.

Joshua: The skulls are very unpredictable, but maybe some of the listeners can gather from what Jose is talking about - because each person - you could have several people in the same presence of the same artifact and have totally unique experiences.

Gina: Yes, I believe that.

José: So, this was the first real experience that I have. Later on, well, I start to test and already I have worked - almost three years that I gave it (the skull) for other people to hold. And last year, in June when I meet Joshua, well... change everything ...

Gina: Well, what about when she put it on your stomach and on your...

José: Oh, I forgot - sorry -

Gina: Yes, no, that's okay. This is exciting.

José: When she told me that she can use the crystal skull in my treatment, I say, "Okay." So she put the crystal skull first on my head. And later over here (points to his stomach).

Gina: Uh huh. On your stomach?

José: And I feel something different. Now when she left, I feel like I was very high.

Gina: Yes. Was that the first time you'd felt a difference when she worked on you?

José: Yes. I feel very high. Looked like a, well - I have no desire to sleep, or to eat, or nothing. I have some kind of drive to do something and I have to move it. So, I take a shower and I walked to the casino to spend time because I cannot sleep.

Joshua: This also illustrates with the crystal skulls - like some people say, "Well, okay they're made out of quartz crystal," which we didn't talk about - the ones found so far -amethyst, rose quartz, clear quartz - those are the ones we know about so far. But for me, it's like I've worked with regular quartz crystal - you know, you buy them in some of the local stores or whatever - and when you go to the level of a crystal skull it's like a thousand times magnified.

Gina: Really. Just because it's carved in that shape or because they're old?

Joshua: Well, I don't know if it's necessarily just the shape. I believe that on a spiritual level that humanity chose the shape of its skull because it is receptive to higher universal knowledge.

Gina: Okay.

Joshua: And as we discussed on Friday, possibly one of the themes for having the crystal skull was that it represented man's connection to God. Because we look at each other at our head. We think we are controlled by the head. But I think too that its power comes from its creators and that whoever the civilizations or beings were, that they were very advanced technologically, spiritually, and this is what they left for us to discover, to activate within us the knowledge that is there and that needs to come back for world peace. But you know, it's just like - people are working with crystals - it's a preparation before you then go to the next step, which would be a crystal skull. And I expect to see many more artifacts - not necessarily in the shape of a skull, but other shapes that will be coming out that also would have this kind of energy and power.

Gina: You know, I do believe that. As a matter of fact, I haven't told you this, but this is something I have picked up about you, and that is that you will most likely begin studying other things besides the skulls that people have never seen before.

Joshua: Well I sure hope so, as an Aries, I always want to do things that are different ... and he'll (pointing to José) come with me!!!

(we show photographs of various ancient crystal skulls with some discussion)

Joshua: (Discussing various shapes and types of ancient crystal skulls ... ) Now this Mayan crystal skull, the Paris crystal skull, the amethyst crystal skull, the Texas crystal skull - all of these are single-piece skulls, whereas the Mitchell-Hedges skull which you saw in the very beginning is a two-part skull.

Gina: What do you mean by a two-part skull?

Joshua: Two-part in that the jaw is separate from the top part of the cranium.

Gina: Okay, so the jaw removes...

Joshua: Yes, it's a removable jaw.

Gina: Why would they make a removable jaw? Do you know?

Joshua: Well, my sensing is with the Mitchell-Hedges skull (and this is one of the theories we talk about in the book) is that it may have been the skull of a human being at one time which, through some technology or some process of the mind, they were actually able to convert into crystal. Now we took some crystals that our co-author Sandra Bowen had to Dr. Marcel Vogel's laboratory where they have radionics machines that measure the energy of the crystals. And they were asking us, "Where did you get these crystals? Where did they come from?" You know?

Gina: Yes.

Joshua: And what happened was is they were very charged from being in the presence of that crystal skull (Mitchell-Hedges). Because energy will transfer. So I think that - getting back to my other point about the jaw being separated with the possibility that the skull could have been an actual human skull - is that the mind is what's used to program crystal. At Marcel Vogel's laboratory they have discovered that bone and crystal store the same energy and vibration. You know, like Native American Indians would pick up the bone of an ancestor and know everything about the ancestor vibrationally. So, what that's saying is that there is some process of the mind involved in programming the crystals or possibly, according to our channel in the book, these priests that worked on the Mitchell-Hedges skull went in and changed the molecular pattern of a Priestess. In other words, they needed a model to work with, so they used her bone. They went in on a very atomic level, were able to change the molecular pattern into crystal. And then this crystal had the entire knowledge of this priestess. So that's one possibility.

Gina: That's quite an amazing theory.

Joshua: Also, there is another theory about whether the jaw was separated in the beginning or not. Frank Dorland thought that some Mayan separated it later. My co-author feels that when you create a masterpiece, you create it first. I feel that it was done that way. And the other thing that kind of confused the researchers at Hewlett-Packard about the Mitchell-Hedges skull is the jaw is done so intricately that, you know, they thought, "Maybe we could duplicate the top part." Now they are just saying physically, not the inner prisms and lenses inside of the crystal skull. Or that it was carved against the natural axis, which José tells me his skull was carved against a natural axis, which we talked about last time...

Gina: Which is impossible to do.

Joshua: Well it can be done. It's very difficult, but to get it so precise without having the crystal shatter. One of the contemporary skulls - which I'll be showing a videotape of in my lecture tomorrow night - a carver was carving that one and the jaw - he was trying to make the jaw separated and the crystal started to shatter and to break. So he had to stop. So when you are cutting crystal, it is a very intricate piece. You want to try to cut it with the natural symmetry - how the molecules are lining up. So, I personally feel that they wanted to duplicate a human skull - whether it was a human skull or not - they wanted it to be exactly like the skull at that time. So that's probably why the jaw was separated. Now, another interesting thing is if you are in the presence of the crystal skull and you are sensitive to energy and you, you know, let's say touch the Mitchell-Hedges skull when the two pieces are separated, it is totally different.

Gina: Really.

Joshua: It is totally different. It feels like...

Gina: Like less energy?

Joshua: Well, for me, it feels like less energy. Like it is not complete. Like it's missing something. So the two pieces work together.

Gina: Must go together.

Joshua: And then of course, there are theories that many of the crystal skulls will come together, because they need to work together.

Gina: ... You're going to be here, José, tomorrow night. Both of you are going to be giving a lecture at David's Books.

José & Joshua: Right. Yes.

Gina: Okay, and you're going to talk about your crystal. But you didn't bring your skull with you. Right?

José: No, not this time. Maybe next...

Gina: Right. Do you leave it at home in a safe place?

José: Yes.

Joshua: Well, we're looking at ways how we can share this, because that's the goal here is to share it with people. But when you have an ancient artifact like this, the crystal skulls are very political. The countries where they came from - they want artifacts back. The owners, you know, are very protective of them.

Gina: Really. Boy oh boy!

Joshua: Yes. So, we're trying to figure out how we can share it with others.

Gina: It's yours!

José: It's mine. And I expect to keep it.

Joshua: So, in the lecture tomorrow we will have slides and video about what the people have seen today and be talking about different people's experiences with the crystal skull. And then, I think even more importantly, is to talk about why are they important. You know, why are people being drawn to them? And how does this interface with what people are calling the manifestation of the Aquarian Age? Because this is the kinds of things that attract me. It's things that clearly show there is a Golden Age coming to our world. There is no one that can convince me otherwise. How we're going to get there from where we are now - to there - no one knows, but I think the crystal skulls is a sign and evidence that indeed these tremendous transformations are coming.

Gina: Yes.

José: I believe that this is for mankind.

Gina & Joshua: Yes.

Gina: And do you believe that you personally, José, have something to do with that now? I mean, in other words, you found this skull a long, long time ago. And you have been working and working and working with the skull.

José: Well, I was not working with the skull without I know it. But, until last year I now know that the crystal skull was the one that put me through all these things.

Gina: Okay, so now that you are aware of what the crystal skull is about, are you going to continue to teach?

José: Well, in some way I feel the obligation to share this thing for mankind.

Gina: Yes, I think that's a very good idea.

José: What is going to be the way to work it I think I have to wait until destiny tells me how to do it, because I learned that in life the best way to move is to do like the water downhill -

Gina: Yes, go with the flow.

José: To go with the flow and take the easy way. So I believe that destiny is the one to tell me what to do. But the idea is to share and this is why I am with Joshua, because, well, he was the second one besides Dusty - that he opened my eyes and gave me the reason for many things that happened in my life. So this is why I...

Gina: That's why you're here right now, today.

José: That is why we are here. Now like tomorrow I'm going to be with you in the lecture. Well, if somebody wants to ask something that I know, they can ask it. Now because these kind of people supposed to be the kind of people that they don't believe too much in metaphysics or all this kind of thing because I have the other face, the other part. So if they want to ask me something, well I'll be glad to answer.

Gina: Yes, well it's time for us to know.

José: Yes.

Joshua: And the question I ask is why aren't more scientists and archaeologists getting involved, because you know, here you have an ancient artifact that they know is coming out of Mayan ruins. Okay, but you know there's not very much information about it. Almost an avoidance to share information.

Gina: Do you think. Yes, I mean, do you think they're afraid?

Joshua: I think that what it is is that if they research it, there is the possibility that all the things they believe in, they may have to throw out of the window. And so, scientists and archaeologists don't like that. ... And therefore I feel this is a very exciting time to be alive, because its (the mysteries and knowledge of the past) all coming out now, everything, everything!! And the crystal skulls are just the tip of the iceberg.

Gina: How do you think these crystal skulls are all going to come together sooner or later? Do you think they'd come together in like an institution, or something like that?

Joshua: I don't know what form it will happen, but I will tell you that it will only happen when it is the right time. Because there have been many attempts to do this, and it just - it hasn't work out.

Gina: They don't make it. Yes.

Joshua: But I think that because the planet is now getting into some crucial periods of time where people must make a decision and I feel the next three years incredible changes are going to be happening. People are no longer going to be able to look from the sidelines. They have to participate in some way. I think that in the next three years that maybe some opportunities will come that we can bring some of the skulls together. I feel that it is possible. It's like, you know, where you need three stones to create an energy grid or a pattern, and it has to be exactly the right three stones or skulls? The energy that would be generated by such a combination would be so tremendous, we may not be ready for it. So, if people listen to the stories around photographs being stolen, or people that offered to buy some of these skulls and they disappear and they can never find them again. There is a timing involved in all of this.

Gina: Yes, I agree with that.

Joshua: And it's not just going to be crystal skulls. It will be many sacred artifacts.

Gina: Yes. Right.

Joshua: And they will come to those who have had connection, I believe, from before - past lives. And that's why I think you got the goose bumps when you heard about it, because it was something that's a thing that you were connected with.

Gina: Yes. We're out of time.

Joshua: Thank you very much, Gina. It was a pleasure.

Gina: Yes, thank you. Joshua Shapiro, author of Mysteries of the Crystal Skulls Revealed, and José ...

José: In'-i-quez.

Gina: Thank you. (Laughter) From Las Vegas. Thank you very much. I'm Gina Varelli.